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Popcorn47 , 11 Sep 2010

Who here believes we should understand WHY we pick,...

.....vs. just changing our behavior. I feel inundated with how many of us here who are trying to seek help, are doing so or being instructed to "just stop picking" by way of substituting one behavior. I realize I may well be in the minority, especially as I read posts written by people who don't stick around much....they post maybe half a dozen times and we don't hear from them again. While on one hand, I know we all are so deeply wounded by csp that we desperately want to stop the behavior, we're looking for "cures" for the symptoms. Even our physicians (many of us) get treated for the "symptoms" we present,....using either over the counter acne medication or various herbal remedies, or getting prescriptions from our doctor that primarily treat acne, and for some of us, secondarily, another prescription for our anxiety. Or desperate we go out and get even more scarring done to our face through various acid peels or laser treatments (the goal of which is to just scar up the whole face uniformly so the skin on your face is just one big new scar, making the appearance of random spots less noticeable because now our skin is just one big even scar. My point is: Are we hurting ourselves more, are we learning anything new, does it matter if we learn anything new, does it matter if we ever learn about why we started or when we started? Is it the universal goal tightly focused on appearance (what can we do to stop these zits, or to pop these zits, or dig out these ingrown hairs, or maul our hair folicles or squeeze or dig holes in our face causing our face to look, as my husband just told me,...like I dumped my motorcycle, landed face first, face down, sliding down the pavement and getting a severe "road rash" on my face. My last "episode" took days to create, but I dutifully made it a point to spend several hours daily sitting on the bathroom counter up close to the mirror with bright lights to dig again, and again,.....in search of new colonies just waiting for my attention. It's sick that I actually looked forward to spending my time, many hours, every day and every night, to "mine" my face for every last stinkin' clogged up pore or zit or bump. Sure I used all the treatments advertised for acne,...but I don't think what we have is "acne" -- not per se. But there's a reason why WE do this to our skin, and other people do not. It's pretty universal that "nice skin" is looked upon favorably in every country on this earth. So my question (to come back full circle) is this: Do we think it's important to understand and address WHY we ever started doing this to ourselves in the first place, and fix that initiator? Or it more effective or important or relevent to settle just for living with anxiety and "just stop picking" -- never wondering if whatever underlying thing started this behavior with us will rear its ugly head by creating something new to focus on. I'd like to know who of us feels if it went away tomorrow, we'd never do it again and we'd be "cured" and "fixed" and never again feel the urge to pick? Do you think our lives and coping skills will magically appear when we merely focus on the behavior, the manifestation? Does any of this make sense? I feel frustrated because even when I "treat my acne" what I cannot "treat" is that impulse control and urge and desire to pick at those imperfections, even if they turned super tiny. Do we need to know "why" or deep down are we under the impression "if only our skin were clear" life as we know it would be a bazillion times better?
11 Answers
EDsDove
September 11, 2010
I look at this as an addiction of sorts, so I can relate it's treatment to NA or AA. There IS an underlying reason we do what we do, regardless of what it is. Our upbringing and environment has shaped everything about us. When what we do becomes destructive and harmful, we must investigate why we do it so we can stop. Think of yourself as a "dry drunk" otherwise. An alcoholic may not be drinking, but the destructive behaviors, to themselves and others, are still there and they are always just one step away from that next, possibly fatal, binge. it's the behavior which needs to be addressed, not necessarily the end results of the behavior as the end results will wash out in the end if their origin is dealt with. Is this a sure-fire cure? No. Is anything? I doubt it. Is it worth a try? I guess that judgement can only be made on an individual basis. ... my humble opinion anyway. lol
Popcorn47
September 11, 2010

In reply to by EDsDove

Wow, okay. You made a good point. I never even considered csp as an addiction, even though all the words I use and others use, clearly point to that. I don't know why I never really saw it that way before, but yes, you're right, now I get it. Like right now,...I have been "pick free" for about a week. I still seem to have impulse control problems in that I still feel the need to get right up to that mirror and inspect my skin. I've developed so many blackheads all over and around my nose and along my chin, and I have two "active" whiteheads that just look like they're begging to be pierced and released, if not squeezed out. But I've been looking at them daily (several times each day), and just trying to maintain washing, and using Bio Oil and Nupercainal cream, alternating. This is really difficult for me, to watch and do nothing. Actually, I'm not "doing nothing," because what I AM doing is "restraining my behavior" so I don't hurt my skin. So it's sort of a passive aggressive thing maybe. Meanwhile I've got wounds all over my breasts, chest and torso, some of which are bandaged, and they're itchy as all get out as well as being so thick and angry. I'm not touching them either they don't seem to be healing. Like I picked them so much that their "normal state" has become the wound.
Zananne
September 11, 2010

In reply to by Popcorn47

"Like I picked them so much that their "normal state" has become the wound." Wow, that struck a nerve for me. Profound. I think that might describe many thing in my life, not just CSP.
Zananne
September 11, 2010
I think both are important. I have been in therapy 4 times in my 40 years. Each time I have gone with a specific 'flaw' I wanted to work on. Most recently, to try to deal with my dad's death. During the same time period as these sessions, I saw A&E's Obsessed featuring the young woman who had CSP. I wondered if it was similar to my foot picking, which had escalated dramatically. That night I went looking online. The next time I saw my therapist I asked about it. She didn't know much about CSP, but by the next week she had educated herself and then we started cbt. But we did not stop talk therapy. We just added my picking to to list of things to work on. I don't have an answer as to why, yet. The reasons I pick are buried deep and constantly covered with the ever growing mental and emotional dirt of life. And I still pick. Less than before, less violently when I do, and rarely now in the 'trance' state; but I'm not cured... yet.
gretna
September 13, 2010
I think that its important to understand the psychology of why we pick, rather than to be just be medicated. For me it has been very helpful to read psychology books. Anyone that might want to visit a psychoanalyst or therapist could benefit. I think that a big part of this is environmental. We pick as a response to what is going on around us. It sounds like your husband is probably an environmental cause in your case. Maybe you pick to reinforce yourself after hearing such an awful comment about your appearance from your partner. It also sounds like you could be OCD. I don't want to be rude and diagnose someone without a degree, so remember i don't really know you and i don't have a license or credentials to diagnose. But it sounds likely. Yesterday for example i was at an amusement park and i went on the drop fall. I really didn't like it and found it scary and uncomfortable. After that I felt some what blank and not inclined to have any more fun or to enjoy myself. When I got down i began to pick at some KP. I stopped myself but i would like to know why i started. I think its because I really felt fear when i was on the drop fall. I think the fear kicked in my anxiety and maybe i started up some old reinforcing nervous behavior.
minxymoo
September 13, 2010
I don't even remember when this started. I feel like if I could remember that point in time, I would know WHY I can't stop doing this to myself, but I can't. I have always done some sort of self-soothing behaviour. When I was little I sucked my thumb, right up until about eleven or twelve, but when I started secondary school I couldn't get away with doing something so childish in front of my school mates, so I started twiddling my hair. I got in trouble for it at school, and when I left school I got in trouble with my boyfriends, saying it was annoying and distracting and made me look nervous. A few years ago I had a boyfriend who was very emotionally abusive; and when we weren't fighting and were being intimate, he used to get me to pick his spots. It actually used to annoy me at first, he'd say I hadn't gotten them all, that he could feel there were still blackheads there, and I'd spend hours searching for blackheads on his back and squeezing, squeezing. Eventually we split up, but I had kind of got hooked by then. My now boyfriend hates being picked, but I can't resist if I see a blackhead on him - I have to get it out. Amazingly, when he lets me pick him, I lose the urge to pick my own face. I think it got worse two years ago when my dad died. We didn't have much of a relationship, he left when I was one, and came in and out of my life when I was growing up. Eventually on my 14th birthday we had a huge fight and never spoke again. I found out he'd died three months after it happened. I always felt like if I was prettier he would have loved me more and only remember negative comments he made about my appearance. Since he died it's gotten worse and worse. I too have been told to stop picking by my mum, my best friends, my boyfriend and a dismissive GP I told in a moment of bravery, who just looked at me like I was mental and prescribed me antibiotics with horrific side effects that they give to cancer patients. I never got the prescription. I used to think I was really ugly to the point that I couldn't go shopping because I thought people were staring at me. I still get dysmorphic moments, I am at the moment and I wonder if they are linked, as I feel like I NEED TO GET THESE UGLY THINGS OUT OF MY FACE! I have just hacked away for an hour at a hardened lump that's developed on my jaw. Every now and then, when I can go deep enough without the blood gettind in the way, I can pull these little white things out of my flesh with tweezers. Andd when I get one out, the feeling of relief is so intense I can't describe it, it's like I've pulled a poisinous stinger out or something, like now everything will be OK now it's out of me. Sometimes I actually lie in bed and fantasise about pulling out massive ones, and how it would feel. I am an otherwise balanced, loving, happy person, so why do I do these dark, disturbed things, and why can't anyone help me stop?
Popcorn47
September 14, 2010

In reply to by minxymoo

Minxy, I simply HAD to reply to your post because it's so familiar and similar,-- a few differences, but not many. I think back to who I was dating when I was around 26 give or take, and that's when things were gentle and mutual as I was introduced, as it were, to the practise of lying out in the sun together, and as the heat would relax our skin and open our pores, we would pick out each others blackheads. I had never "done it" with or to another person before. It was always private, and always under control. My skin had no scars or marks. Well, at that time, "we" would both exclusively focus on blackhead extractions, and never, ever even touched or went near a whitehead or other type of active blemish. I remember that even then (before I manifested csp/ocd) that I had this amazing sense of cleanliness, and a sort of catharsis would take place both when I was "doing the extraction," as well as when "it was being done to me." It was very mutual. But again, quite controlled. We never even so much as put a mark on one another. Gosh, looking back, it was just like going to one of those spa places for a facial where they "pick your acne" for you and you pay an outrageous sum of money for this "pampering" experience (which to me, when I DID try getting "professional facials" -- later, after we had broken up, and I seemed unable to get the same results on my own, -- were extremely painful to endure, I'd frequently wince and tear up, and would always have the next 3 days show that I got a facial,...it took about 3 days for the redness that was created to dissipate)..............................................................................................................(adding that line in to try and compensate for how this site won't let us make paragraphs and turns everything we write into one long unbroken block of words like a run-away sentence! Drives me nuts, makes it MUCH harder to read posts. Wish they would "fix this problem")................................................................................................Okay, and moving on. The next guy I dated,....it took me a few years, but I eventually got him to give in to my increasing requests/demands to pick/extract the blackheads from his face. What made this beginning into the adventure of csp seem acceptable was that after I would "work on him," he would get all sorts of compliments from his family, especially his mom, and his friends, who would tell him they "couldn't tell what it was, but he looked different, he looked great!" It was his mom who told him that his face "looked cleaner." So that was my first foray into the justification for picking,....confirmation from outsiders that doing so was equated with looking better, looking cleaner, looking healthier. At this point, I had not begun the self mutilation carousel yet, but I sure was standing in line waiting to jump on...........................................................................................which brings me to, my dad. He was never around much when I was growing up. When I got too big for him to rock in his rocking chair or tossing me up in the air and catching me,....he lost interest in me, his daughter. My folks divorced when I was 16 (but they had not been "together" for years by this point). My dad was a serial cheater, always having affairs. My memories of him, --- all I can seem to remember are the negatives. He'd make fun of both my mom and me, laughing big while telling us we were fat, that we had what he called "piano legs" because our thighs and butts were big. It's sad but I can only remember ONE compliment he ever gave me. Ever! And it was when I suffered from anorexia and my weight dropped to 96 pounds and he said to me that I was looking good, to keep it up. Way to boost a teenager's self-esteem dad, thanks. When he died, I found out afterwards too because he had remarried by that point, and had not spoken in years. And while we (obviously) weren't close, that event seems to coincide with several other heart-breaking events, all occuring in the year my dad died. So close or not, something inside me sort of snapped a bit when he died and I felt a part of myself die too, and that's when I started unhealthy behaviors (besides the anorexia crap, or the getting fat crap, or the self-abusive self-talk running in my head 24/7). Mom didn't help "the situation" because she was forever bringing me into department stores as a young teenager to get makeup (and make overs), encouraging me to wear makeup "to look pretty" at a young age. And if my clothes were casual or loose, she felt it an obligation to point out how what I'm wearing, the way my hair was, the way I was or wasn't wearing makeup,....did nothing for me. She criticized my appearance on a regular basis, and to this day, she still does. The only compliment she's ever given me is that I'm smart, that I have a good brain,....I was attending college classes in the evening "for fun" at the age of 12. I guess mom figured if I can enroll in university at 16, I should be able to,....dot/dot/dot, fill in the blanks with her list of what SHE wanted me to take. Okay so we have the mom and dad thing going. ...............................................................................................On a final note, when you commented about how when you go deep enough you see these little white things within the wound you created and using tweezers you'd pull them out, with great satisfaction. ME TOO!! I wasn't sure if anyone else "saw those white things" inside. I'd use a needle to pry those white spots loose and dig 'em out, and tweezers to pull them out. They sort of reminded me of pulling out tiny white worms. I justified by digging deeper and further by figuring out whatever those white things were, (and I really DON'T know what they are!),...and there'd be several "white dots" within a single wound, so digging them all out meant creating a bigger wound, but I felt cleaner and felt like I took something out of my body that was causing it to form these zits. I've been at this for years, and you'd think I'd learn but nope, I get that same rush when I can extract those white thingies all the way and they don't "break up" as I pull them out. I've even tried to squeeze them out (big stupid mistake) but they would never, ever come out that way, and I'd squeeze very hard in my attempts to just get rid of what I knew shouldn't be in my body, and forever thinking "THIS TIME I've really gotten them all out so THIS TIME I'll fix the problem and won't develop a zit or pustule or wound. Yeah, right. Just like you, when I get those white things out (which only become visible/present AFTER creating a nasty enough wound, they're deep inside), I felt like I just removed something from my skin that wasn't shouldn't be there. I really did think each time that "THAT" would be my final need for attacking that particular spot because I "fixed" the problem. One heartbreaking moment occured when me, my face dug up covered in holes and scars and scabs, and I wanted to have sex with my boyfriend and he didn't. He couldn't. He said "sorry, but I just can't get over what your face looks like,...I can't work around it." It grossed him out and disgusted him, and what exacerbated it was that he ran one of his businesses from our home, so we always had a "waiting room" (usually it was "my personal space" in the house, but not when it was business time),....so lots of people, lots of repeat clients,....and THEY would ask him what was wrong with me, and what was I doing to my face,...it put him on the spot, and I'm sure influenced his existing ability to not want to, or have the ability to, explain away my behavior when he (along with his clients) would comment about my face. ..................................................................................................... I am now married (different man), and as any of you know who's read my posts already know how he's clearly expressed to me how disgusted he is, how gross I look, and he asked me if I was stupid or something that I would keep doing this to myself. Yes, my husband, my life partner, was telling me to my face how gross it looked,...how I leave blood spots all over the pillows and sheets, and for a few years now has begun to "clock me" or "time me" on how long I'm in the bathroom (long visits = picking session) and verbally embarassed me, loudly, often, and always with that pinched-faced look that accompanies being grossed out......................................................................................... Also like you, I've always found ways to "self soothe" (I am an only child and was a latch-key kid growing up, beginning in first grade!!)....my methods involving ways to "hurt myself," even though while I'm doing it, I either don't feel pain, or the pleasure I get from extracting overrides the pain because with the intensity of the anticipation I'd feel, started the cycle and got my hormones started, and the actual happiness I'd get from "successful" mining with the accomplishment, evident by what I dug out, was (sometimes still does) simply override pain, override common sense, and throws out the window any potential of understanding AT THE TIME I'M DOING IT, of how much I am hurting myself,...physically, emotionally, psychologically,....and socially. I could easily clear my mind of any duties or tasks that needed to be done for my family and replace them with the planning and anticipation and preparation of getting ready to sit up on the counter in the bathroom and begin what is hours of digging. One of my last sessions was 8 hours straight. That makes no sense and is downright stupid, but it's what I do. It's nothing for me to spend 4 hours locked in the bathroom (pretending to do other stuff,....yeah, right), hiding my behavior from my husband,...only to walk out of the bathroom with face that looks like, as my husband recently told me, like I started to go through a wood chipper, face first, and got stuck, but I was slashed up and cut up enough, he could make that comparison while wrinkling his nose at me in disgust and further withdrawing from our relationship.............................................................................................. This is truly one demon of a disorder, and it sure doesn't look like there's any "cure" coming out, not so long, (and especially so if we are female!) as they've got anti-depressants (the doctor's first line of defense,....let's not investigate, let's just work on what is "obviously depression.") For as many of us as they are, it's not enough for "them," -- for science, -- to invest much in the way of research. Not enough people suffer from it to warrant further research in treatment (beyond loading us up with various anti-depressants and anti-anxiety pills and telling us to either (a) take these drugs and quite simply, just stop doing this to myself, since it's a behavioral CHOICE,...not like I have diabetes and REQUIRE specific medications, for life,....or (b) send us to a shrink where once again, we're to be forking over massive amounts of cash paying someone to sit across from us and primarily asking us "how do you feel about that?" I feel it's like paying someone $175 an hour to "pretend to be your friend" and listen to you yet again go through the same ole line of questions. I was turned away from therapy one time because, she told me, I had "too many problems." Well shucks,.....duh, YEAH,....that's sort of why I'm here trying to hook up with a therapist. I know we're all different and respond differently to situations,.....my personal experience/perception of therapy is that confiding in a best friend you trust would amount to the same thing, but without the price tag.
minxymoo
September 14, 2010

In reply to by Popcorn47

Oh my gosh, Popcorn, thanks so much for your reply. Last night was the first time I've ever really 'talked' about what's happening to me. I've broken down a couple of times to my mum, but then I played it down because I don't want to worry her and ultimately I feel like she's be disappointed in having such a damaged daughter (even though she loves me a lot, and has been a wonderful mum). I'm so glad you know about the white things too. No one else seems to have talked about it, and I've looked it up but nothing seems to be the same as what I have in my skin. The nearest thing I could find is milk spots, but mine are really deep. I think maybe it's hair follicles or fat or something. Sometimes I'm scared I'll pull and pull and it will end up being vein or nerve or something that's attached!! I feel your frustration - thank you for sharing your story with me.
ricky
December 22, 2011
mine was the same problem..i never realized that digging out my facial skin with a tweezer would pave way for scars..but then i ended up with 4 -3mm long and 1mm deep pits on my left cheek. The moment i noticed it i felt bad coz i had a beautiful face and now it is all gone..but the very moment i decided to let the ingrown hair come out on it's own and this certainly stopped the whole scarring procedure but i still faced away with the ingrown hair bumps. and it looked really bad..but then 1 fine day i decided to shave 2-3 cms above my shave line where i used to get the bumps...and 1 thing i tell you,,it acted as a life saviour,,,all bumps gone...now i only have those 4 pits and watch them 24*7 wish there is some improvement. all i would like to tell you is that throw all the tweezers out of your house coz it will ruin your life..i would undergo chemical peels or dermabrasion next year coz i,ll get my engineering degree and a decent job..i still remember the day when i dug out my face and it changed my life...i you can't shave let it come out on it's own and then use a thread to remove it....never a tweezer...!
DawnSturgeon
December 24, 2011
Hi, just read your post. My thought is that it is both psychological stuff that is not figured out and that picking is a secondary defense that we have. I also believe it is compulsive and obsessive. Some people once they have some time can stop for good others cannot because they don't remember the pain that it causes from the full reality of it which is why I have most likely not stopped yet. I hope I stop before I get a terrible scar, guess reality has not set in for me yet. Well, that is the best that I can do to answer the questions in there. I feel the frustration that you're talking about and I get frustrated at my self as well after I have a good go at it. What I am learning as of lately is that it is a secondary response just as anger is a secondary response. So when it come up for me I have to look at what is really going on inside me and some times I can't catch it in time. There are times too that I just don't know how to get ride of black heads and I just went 10 days without picking which was a miracle. It's been years since I have done that. So, I am at a stand still at this point. I think we are all looking for answers and it is hard to find some clear answers on this topic because it is not widely know or talked about. It is a body dimorphic disorder I know that because we are so caught up on having that perfect clear face. lol, funny but not at the same time. Anyways I wish you luck on your journey and hope you find that peace with in you to ease the tension away from the compulsion to pick. I hope that for my self as well. Thank you for sharing. :)

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